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Max Levchin, a co-founder at both PayPal and the Glow fertility startup, joined Sarah Lacy on stage in San Francisco on Thursday to discuss his journey from the Soviet Union to Silicon Valley.

Levchin told the audience about how he learned to code by writing “Tetris” and “Snake” clones on pieces of paper, how close PayPal was to never existing, and how the Slide social application startup drained the life out of him. He also discussed PayPal’s early money laundering troubles, the problem with Bitcoin, and how recent revelations about the National Security Agency’s surveillance efforts compare to life in the Soviet Union.

Watch the full interview below…